Sony VPL-VW600ES 4K Projector
- This topic has 11 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 4 months ago by Anonymous.
July 2, 2014 at 3:24 am #741AnonymousInactive
Sony VPL-VW600ES 4K Projector calibrated in the User mode.
I’m just beginning to learn this PJ but the initial calibration was a pleasure.
Grayscale: It only has a 2 point system. I first calibrated using 80 & 30% but this left 20 & 10 too far off for my liking so I changed the cuts to 20% and the result was more than satisfactory.
CMS: This projector has a full CMS and it is highly effective. I only had to make one iteration.
July 3, 2014 at 8:34 am #3043AnonymousInactive
I own the VW500 and have calibrated many others in the field. It’s a joy to calibrate! I love this projector. The only fly in the ointment is 3d performance which exhibits a bit more crosstalk and is dimmer than even the much cheaper Sony HW55 IMO. Sony did release a firmware update to help this recently but any improvement is marginal.August 26, 2015 at 7:45 am #3133AnonymousInactive
An other “big fly in the ointment” is that the Sony SXRD panels “self destructs”. After a few hundred hours its black-level is raised quite a lot, the gamma is totally off, and on/off contrast is reduced to half the contrast of a new projector.
The problem is an issue I have observed in a lot of Sony projectors. After a couple of hundred hours, that gamma starts changing quite drastically in the low end of the grayscale, as the projectors black level i raised. Often a default gamma of 2.2 vil measure below 1.8 from 0 to 30-40 IRE, and from there and upward it measures a somewhat correct 2.2. The impact on picture quality is poor black-level, and severe loss of contrast. This is not unique to VW300/350/500/600/1000/1100, but is observed in all Sony projectors. It seams like the optical engine deteriorates over time, with lower light output in the bright end, and at the same time light output in the dark end is raised quite a lot. Often I have to recommend customers with HW projectors to by a video processor, to be able to calibrate a somewhat linear gamma. This will unfortunately not solve the problem with raised black level, its gamma correction only. I usually measure between 6-7000:1 native on/off contrast on the VW1000/1100, and after less than 1000 hours operation, the contrast is refused to less than 3000:1, often as low as 2300:1. All my clients have sold their Sony 4K’s, as Sony offer no solution or repair.
Sony has developed a software for calibrating multipoint gamma in their premium projectors, called “Projector Calibration Pro”. I tried to correct some of this issues with the Sony Projector Calibration Pro software, but it didn’t work. The reason for this is that their gamma equalizer isn’t working properly. When calibrating gamma, adjustments done at one point in the gamma equalizer, is affecting the points over and under the one that is being adjusted. That way, it is impossible to obtain a linear gamma. I also encountered quite a lot of color banding when using the gamma equalizer.
To make this tool work, engineers have to look at the width off impact each adjustment point affects. This needs to be perfect, so that each adjustment point reaches the next adjustment point, but with no overlapping. Getting this perfect is mandatory to be able to calibrate gamma without generating banding.
I would also like to have a 21-point gamma adjustment possibility. Todays software can chose between 10-point and 64-point. 64-point is very time-consuming, and 10-point is a bit imprecise. One of the reasons I would prefer a 21-point scale, is that most high-end test pattern generators have 21-point patterns as maximum. This has been reported back to Sony engineers, but there still is no updated calibration tool. If it indeed worked perfect, it would of course not recover the loss of on/off contrast, merely correct gamma.
The reason I write this, is so that you guys don’t end like I did, recommending a projector that turns out to self-destructs within a short timespan. It does not seem to be any improvement in the upcoming 2016 models either, since they use the same panels as the 2014/2015 models. The newest full-HD panels (for example the HW55) deteriorates much slower than the 4K panels.August 26, 2015 at 12:26 pm #3134Gregg LoewenKeymaster
hi Gorm, thanks for the info!! Good stuff.November 3, 2015 at 10:30 pm #3097AnonymousInactive
Wow. As I sit here calibrating a VW300. Good info to know. I haven’t done a recalibration on any Sony Projector to find out what happens after the fact!November 11, 2015 at 9:42 pm #3098AnonymousInactive
@Mike Osadciw 4364 wrote:
Wow. As I sit here calibrating a VW300. Good info to know. I haven’t done a recalibration on any Sony Projector to find out what happens after the fact!
Me too. It’s been almost a year and a half since I calibrated mine and the picture is still so good I haven’t bothered to check. I always accepted the fact the MLL was less than ideal so I try not to pay attention.November 12, 2015 at 9:08 pm #3099AnonymousInactive
With your K10A, just measure on/off contrast – without dynamic iris – over time. All the VW1100’s I have measured have a native contrast in the area 7-8000:1 brand new. After 4-500 hours, the measure less than 3500:1, and “black” measures a lot higher than the projector did new. A linear gamma is also impossible unless you hock up a LUT-box or some sort of videoEQ
The VW300/500 have lower on/off contrast, but measure the same raise in black level as the VW1000/1100 over time.
By the way, I also use the Klein K10A. Actually two of them, just to always be able to confirm “suspicious readings”. Use my PR670 for profiling.November 13, 2015 at 9:27 am #3100AnonymousInactive
I’m following the discussion on AVSforum, and have some comments. First of all, thanks for not quoting me by name. My largest customer is the Sony distributor in Norway, and they will not be pleased with me going public with this info! They have a proses going with Sony regarding this issues, but for the last 6 months Sony has not answered back.
Regarding the measurements you did on your VW600. You describe loss of brightness (due to lamp), and black level “as it was”? You should have measured the same loss of brightness in near black, as you did in white. The fact that your gamma is of targets should prove my contention. The big surprise comes when you replace the lamp, and the brightness returns. Then you will experience the same increase in brightness throughout the gray scale, and you are left with significantly poorer black levels.
By the way, at least one of the guys who has commented on AVSforum is a previous VW1100 owner. Of course, both he and the other earlier owners fail to discuss the problem, because they will not be accused of having sold a defective product. All the Norwegian customers where ignored by Sony regarding this issues. Leaving them with only one option to get rid of the projectors without loosing too much of money.
GormNovember 13, 2015 at 4:33 pm #3101Gregg LoewenKeymaster
I have been notified that a post from this forum was posted on AVS. IMMEDIATELY REMOVE IT FROM AVS. THIS IS A PRIVATE PROFESSIONAL FORUM AND INFORMATION IS NEVER TO BE POSTED ELSEWHERE.
Thank you.November 13, 2015 at 7:45 pm #3102AnonymousInactive
I have also observed serious degradation of gamma and other characteristics in Sony SXRD front PJs, not what could be explained by lamp aging.February 24, 2016 at 9:01 pm #3178AnonymousInactive
So what is the consensus best practice….1) use projector calibration pro software or avoid it? 2) If it is to use it, where is the download…or is included on a cd in the box??March 11, 2016 at 10:45 pm #3181AnonymousInactive
Just received a new version of the projector calibration pro software from European product manager Thomas Issa. I have calibrated a couple of projectors with it (gamma), and no banding issues so far. I also had a meeting with Naoya Matsuda (head of Sony SXRD department) regarding the degradation issues of the SXRD panels. Sony has implemented some countermeasures on latest models, but unfortunately it is no permanent solution. All SXRD based projectors will degrade to about 2000:1 native contrast. This due raised black. With the projector calibration pro software, we can compensate the none linear gamma, but it is not possible to lower black. If the projector degrades beneath 2000:1 native contrast, it is no longer possible to achieve a linear gamma. Naoya Matsuda also said that the SXRD projectors “worst enemy” was moist air and low usage (few hours over time).
Here is a link to my dropbox, and a zip-file with the projector calibration pro software v1004:
EDIT: please do not share this post on any open forums. I would like to maintain god relations with Sony in the future also.
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