The Pioneer Kuro Elite (2008 model) Best TV Ever?

The Pioneer Kuro Elite (2008 model) Best TV Ever?

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  • #609
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hi fellow A/V enthusiasts!

    I am currently in the market for a new panel & recent research (on cnet.com, a/v forums, & talking w/ techies) has shown that the 2008 Pioneer Kuro Elite PRO-111FDhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10054347-1.html might be one of the “best flat-panel displays ever tested” (according to David Katzmaier of cnet.com).

    I was wondering if you would be so kind as to give me feedback/input/thoughts as to what your opinion is of this panel.

    According to Katzmaier, the Kuro “…produced the deepest black levels we’ve tested outside of OLED and the most-accurate color, and in most other important picture quality areas it performed admirably.”

    Click the link below to see the full cnet review of the Pioneer Kuro:
    http://reviews.cnet.com/hdtv-sets/pioneer-elite-kuro-pro/4505-6482_7-33002556.html

    I have not seen one in person yet. There are a couple of individuals in SoCal that are currently selling their used sets so I was wondering if I should risk purchasing an older Kuro w/ no warranty or save for a top of the line Panasonic, Sony, or Sharp Elite? :confused:

    Although Katzmaier has said the Pioneer Kuro is better than the Sharp Elite PRO-X5FD LED – “The Kuro still produces a better picture overall, especially from off-angle.” Although the Sharp (who had a licensing agreement with Pioneer to use the Elite name) is able to handle 3D sources and is 70-inches.

    I’m looking for a panel to display HD content for editing clients, viewing Blu-ray material, & for HD gaming. Any help would be greatly appreciated! 😀

    Also, if you can please guide me to some other good & reliable television review sites that you personally use that would be wonderful too! Thanks in advance guys!

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
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  • #2523
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    The 2012 Panasonic VT50 series is supposed to be everything those pioneers were and more. Panasonic did acquire the kuro tech so figure their engineers know what they are talking about.

    As nice as the Pioneers were, I never liked the clipping of whites past 235 or killing blacks under 16.

    regards

    #2526
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Panasonic-VT50-TX-P50VT50B-P55VT50B-P65VT50B-50-Inch-Flagship-3D-Plasma-TV-Review_282/Review.html
    Also, search for reviews of the Panasonic Pro VX300 Series monitors. The Panasonic professional plasmas are frequently used by studios for large format client approval review displays.

    Best regards and beautiful pictures,
    Alan Brown, President
    CinemaQuest, Inc.
    A Lion AV Consultants affiliate

    “Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging”

    #2527
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Thank you for the feedback Michael! Much appreciated!!!:D

    I will definitely do more research & check out the 2012 Panasonic VT series.

    Regards.

    #2528
    Gregg Loewen
    Keymaster

    ive worked on a few of the panny 300s now…they do not have the black level of a kuro.

    does it really matter? (definitely no, if you use a back light).

    #2529
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    @Gregg Loewen 3518 wrote:

    ive worked on a few of the panny 300s now…they do not have the black level of a kuro.

    does it really matter? (definitely no, if you use a back light).

    This explains why:

    “Contrast could be considered to be the most significant quality that impacts not only the perceived depth of an image, but also affects the apparent sharpness…..While the luminance level of a given image affects how the eye perceives contrast and detail, the ambient conditions surrounding the image can also have a dramatic impact. This phenomena was studied by Bartleson and Breneman (1967) to examine the impact of perceived contrast based not only on the luminance level of the image but taking into account the surrounding ambient luminance levels as well. Their results showed that the perceived contrast increased as ambient luminance increased. With the increase in ambient luminance, the eye interprets black levels as being darker while the impact to the white level is minimal. Since the perceived difference in dark areas is greater under the higher ambient luminance conditions, the perceived contrast is higher. It is a natural tendency to want low ambient luminance levels to strive for “better” perceived image quality and what is thought to result in higher contrast. However, in reality, the opposite is true. This tendency may be justified for current direct view CRT televisions due to the issue of glare that results from the glossy surface of the glass tube [also true for certain flat panel displays today]. With less ambient luminance, the glare is reduced- but it may be important to keep some ambient luminance behind the television [as in the case of bias lighting] to keep the perceived contrast higher…..While sharpness can affect the apparent contrast of an image, the converse is true in that contrast can also impact the apparent sharpness of an image. Images that have lower contrast will appear to be not as sharp as an image of the same content, but with higher contrast…..A subjective study was then conducted to verify the impact that ambient lighting has on perceived contrast. Several non-technical (and thus presumably non-biased) and technical observers were asked to compare a series of images with various ALL [average luminance levels] under different ambient luminance extremes in order to understand the impact that ambient viewing conditions might have on the perceived contrast between the two television technologies [CRT and DMD (DLP RPTV)]. Under dark ambient conditions, the result for images with an ALL > 5% was found to be equal between the CRT and the first DMD display. However, under bright ambient conditions (about 250 nits of luminance on the wall behind all of the units), the DMD display was favored over the CRT by 50% of the observers as having higher perceived contrast…..This proved that ambient conditions have the effect of potentially raising the black level threshold of the eye above the actual black level of the television such that the perceived contrast ratio is higher.” from the SMPTE Journal, 11/02. ‘The Importance of Contrast and its Effect on Image Quality‘ by Segler, Pettitt and Kessel

    “Their experimental results, obtained through matching and scaling experiments, showed that the perceived contrast of images increased when the image surround was changed from dark to dim to light. This effect occurs because the dark surround of an image causes dark areas to appear lighter while having little effect on light areas (white areas still appear white despite changes in surround). Thus since there is more of a perceived change in the dark areas of an image than in the light areas, there is a resultant change in perceived contrast…..Often, when working at a computer workstation, users turn off the room lights in order to make the CRT display appear of higher contrast. This produces a darker surround that should perceptually lower the contrast of the display. The predictions of Bartleson and Breneman are counter to everyday experience in this situation. The reason for this is that the room lights are usually introducing a significant amount of reflection off the face of the monitor and thus reducing the physical contrast of the displayed images. If the surround of the display can be illuminated without introducing reflection off the face of the display (e.g., by placing a light source behind the monitor that illuminates the surrounding area), the perceived contrast of the display will actually be higher than when it is viewed in a completely darkened room.” from ‘Color Appearance Models,’ by Mark D. Fairchild, Ph.D., of the Chester F. Carlson Center for Imaging Science: Munsell Color Science Laboratory

    #2534
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Gregg & Alan, thanks for the feedback guys. Great points & I really appreciate the detailed explanation! 🙂

    #2535
    Gregg Loewen
    Keymaster

    you are welcome!
    On a related note…Ive been playing with the new Sony OLED PVM2541. It is frkn insanely good.
    (did I mention that I like it ? ).

    #2536
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    So how does one get to “play” with one of those?

    #2537
    Gregg Loewen
    Keymaster

    hi Vince

    I worked on my first one during a Post House calibration visit, then I talked to Sony directly about getting one. Retail is $6K. This is a HD-SDI monitor with selectable color gamut, gamma presets, etc. All you have to do is set the the white point. I will be carrying this monitor around with me (with a custom case) to show true reference vs consumer / pro calibrated reference.

    #2540
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I prefer this one.

    #2544
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Funny thing Lee, my customer just gave a sony CRT like that to their cleaning lady today, they are upgrading to a LED 🙂

    #2545
    Gregg Loewen
    Keymaster

    I sold mine off about 3 years ago. I was way past tired of the lack of light output, geometry issues, and color uniformity issues.

    #2551
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hi Gregg,

    What set up are you using to input to SDI?

    #2552
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hi Gregg,

    What set up are you using to input into SDI?

    #2554
    Gregg Loewen
    Keymaster

    Quantum data 701

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